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Shannon
08-09-2012, 11:40 PM
Below are the links to a letter to the Attorney General, with attachments, outlining and giving evidence of Corruption, starting with 1 corrupt cop who managed to manipulate an entire Judicial proceeding, from arrest right through to sentancing.......


https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0WQNFi9rlgEQkxOMy1NSlZIajQ

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xnt07ZdzbhD5yO8kcxgQCk9ECkcK1cPG8d9n3d-A_iE/edit

This goes to show how much power the Police have and how 1 corrupt officer can start an entire chain of events - cover up after cover up............

The reply will be posted.

Shannon
09-09-2012, 01:57 PM
I tried them - the word "independent" is some what misleading. They sent the complaint back to the Police for them to invetsigate, the Police then got an officer who was investigating me to investigate my compalint. I found out what the investigator was doing and notified the IPCA. My complaint wasnt upheld. The IPCA waited until I got found guilty and then was sentanced, despite know there was NO indepandant enquiry, they quoted Judge McNaughton and would not re look at my original compalint. I still have nothing in writting from Police, which I asked for. The investigator refussed to give me his findings in writting.
I then sent the IPCA a copy of this corrispondance. I have never heard back from the.

It appears as though they have no problem with this sort of thing, in fact they allow it and assist to keep coving it up.
They certainly havnt done anything to stop corruption like this or address this.
This is SERIOUS and it is disgusting that so many people can know about it and do nothing..... i.e, The POlice commissioner, the Justice Minister, the Police minister and so on.

Shannon
09-09-2012, 09:32 PM
I havent really asked.....but the couple who know about it havent jumped at the chance...lol
Do you know one who is looking to piss off the enire NZ Police force and doesnt want to be paid?????? lol
if you do, id love their number?

dgnzpo
10-09-2012, 09:15 AM
Have you been to the highest authority about your concens?

Shannon
10-09-2012, 10:57 PM
who is the highest authority??????

Shannon
10-09-2012, 11:16 PM
The thing is that it is not actually about compensation, it is the shocking fact that the Government wont take responsibility for its actions ( the actions of corrupt Police ect) everyone I have notified of this has passed the buck and nothing has been done about it.

It is shocking that this sort of thing happens. These actions shouldn't even have occurred to a person who did commit an offence.

The laws and legislation's in place for Judges, Police ect, do not say "but you can ignore such acts and legislation's if you want the person to be guilty or if you think they are guilty nor does it claim these actions are acceptable if you are guilty.

Innocent and guilty alike deserve a fair Judicial proceeding. The Government is supposed to have bodies to protect us, like the IPCA, Judicial conduct Commissioner ect but they are just placed there by the Government to lead us to believe we are protected, all the while these bodies are assisting to cover up what ever they can.

FiFi40
11-09-2012, 05:48 PM
If Chris Finlayson dosen't reply you should email the UN committee of Human Rights, send them a copy of your letter to the attorney general. It's a shame you aren't in Auckland nyou could attend this.......

Seminar: Taking Cases to the UN Human Rights Committee

http://www.law.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/events/template/event_item.jsp?cid=514007

We have some real a holes in high places in this country.

davidcouper
12-09-2012, 06:16 AM
As we all know, even allegations of police corruption or use of excessive force hurts everyone – especially us. This happens because of lost cooperation, support and trust – which, in turn, diminishes our effectiveness. For more on this problem and other police improvement challenges take a look at my new book, “Arrested Development: A Veteran Police Chief Sounds Off About Protest, Racism, Corruption and the Seven Steps Necessary to Improve Our Nation’s Police” (Amazon.com in US and EU). And visit my blog at http://improvingpolice.wordpress.com. And good policing for all of us!

FiFi40
13-09-2012, 12:23 AM
Attorney General has certain responsibilities. If he does not fulfill the responsibilities, I think the place you should appeal this matter is Parliament. So, my thinking is to get a local MP and have this matter discussed at Parliament. I am sure that some opposition MPs want anything that they can use to discredit the National Government.

It would be a waste of time appealing to Parliament, this lot don't give a damn about justice nor do they give a damn about ordinary NZders.

Bill (of Rights)
14-09-2012, 01:04 PM
It would be a waste of time appealing to Parliament, this lot don't give a damn .. ..

Yes, we all know this. And (no matter which political party it is) people bleat about it daily on blog sites all over the place and on talkback radio ad infinitum.

But this site tends to be more about what we can do about it in a positive way, rather than bounce bleats about politicians off each other. What you bleat of is actually a given. What we need to talk about here is how we can (a) find an alternative solution; or (b) change the fact that politicians don't give a damn. Any ideas?

Now for what it is worth, I happen to think that politicians not giving a damn, is not so much a reflection of the individuals who become politicians, but more of a reflection on the general public not giving a damn (about justice generally).

We have to let our politicians know when they get it wrong. We need to write to them and let them know what has gone wrong. Our numbers are small here. We need to be strong in what we say to the politicians. We need to pick and choose which politicians are helpful to our situation (and Finlayson is definitely not, so whatever we can do to oust him, would be good). Chester Borrows on the other hand is more reasonable and approachable (though still tainted by being an ex-cop).

So rather than damn all politicians, target, target, target. And when you get a good result (ha ha) let everyone know how you did it. When it's bad, as in this case, let's exchange what we can do about it.

Now having said that, my bleat on Finlayson. He's just a foul-mouthed ill-tempered sniping (gay) lawyer with far too much power, and far too much of a chip on his shoulder. But my saying that doesn't really help, except to warn others, to stay away from expecting rights or justice help from him. Unless you are part of a minority group, you will get no help from Finlayson. He is very anti- Bill of Rights Act. He is very pro-judiciary, pro-Crown and anti-defendants' rights. So get help from elsewhere such as MOJ or your local MP. Work around Finlayson. Don't expect help from him.

Sir Richard
14-09-2012, 08:27 PM
Rather than attacking the personality of Chris Finlayson, is it more positive to attack the role of the Attorney-General in not doing its statutory role?

The issues are not mutually exclusive. And I doubt whether you can justly separate the two. Chris Finlayson has exposed more than he likes to take it up the butt - not that there is anything wrong with that!

By seeking to have very senior lawyers relinquish their status in the NZ legal system simply for justly criticising the quality of judgments coming from our judges is... draconian, or worse. When did we wake up to find the personality of the Attorney General has taken us out of the realm of other democracies who value freedom of expression?

"Frank"
14-09-2012, 10:41 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with Bill - we need to discuss strategies, what works and what does not work.

We had multiple face-to-face meetings with 4 MPs. I was greatful that one MP actually flew from Wellington to Auck one day, specifically so that we could meet in a meeting room at the airport, then he flew straight back again. They gave us a lot of support and empathy, but little real action that made any difference. When you boil it down there is not much an MP can do really. One MP asked 3 questions in the House pertaining to our situation, however his questions needed to be generalised so the final wordings were rather watered down. And the reply from the Minister was the normal side-stepping that one can watch every week during parliamentary question time. So, even though it felt good to have questions asked in parliament, the bottom line is that it did not alter our situation really.

One of the MPs we met multiple times was our constituent MP, Lockwood Smith (when he was in opposition). He was genuinely horrified by what he heard. After some of our gagging court cases we went to see him again to give him an update. I will never forget his reaction when I described the process we went through in the Family court, and the blatant disregard for the rule of law - his face went white, and he was very alarmed - he got up and started pacing the floor, clearly very agitated - then he turned to his PA who was in the room and said: "This is even bigger than we can handle". He looked very disturbed. I assumed the "we" he referred to was parliament. He asked us to put what we had told him in writing (which we did), but nothing ever came of it. I believe some MPs misunderstand the concept of the independence of the judiciary. They believe they can't interfere. They can't interfere in particular cases, but if the judiciary is out of control, if corruption in the judiciary is rife, parliament can change the rules within which the judiciary operate.

Our strategy nowadays has moved somewhat away from the NZ parliament. We are trying a new approach which is to get support and publicity overseas. I firmly believe that NZ being a small country, cannot ignore too much pressure from overseas. We have spoken to 2 MPs in the House of Commons recently, and last week spoke with a Baroness in the House of Lords. They are all horrified by our NZ experiences. We hope to turn these contacts into pressure on NZ, and will see whether that makes any difference.

We have fought this battle for 9 years now. The corruption cost us two children. We are now armed only with the truth. We will fight for as long as it takes to see justice. I know others on this site feel the same - they are prepared to fight to the death. Literally. We have no doubt that justice will eventually prevail. We just don't know when. Hopefully it will be in our lifetime, but if not we will setup mechanisms to ensure the fight continues after we pass. I am hoping that if we need it, there are still at least 25 years left in me. As we get more and more bold in spreading the truth about our experience, we notice that those who harmed our family simply lie low - it is as if, like Saddam, Gadaffi, and some others, once word gets out, they hope to escape by simply digging a hole in the ground and hiding away.

"Frank"
16-09-2012, 06:37 AM
Shannon, there is a very good article in today's Daily Mail in the UK entitled: Masters of Cover-up - how the establishment closes ranks to protect it's own and deny the people the truth:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203524/Hillsborough-disaster-cover-How-Establishment-closes-ranks-protect-own.html

Bill (of Rights)
16-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Neither does it make a difference to me what Finlayson's gender preference is. It kinda saddens me though that I cannot mention his preference in a parenthesised word, without others having to read into it, anything other than what the man represents himself to be. No different from saying that someone with the name Chris or Kim is male of female. By the way, the Attorney General was not appointed to be the Attorney General. Chris Finlayson was. I think I was trying to say above that the office of the Attorney General has been better served in the past, and it will again in the future.
If Sir Geoffrey Palmer has the unofficial title of "the father of the NZ Bill of Rights, then
Christopher Finlayson could be called "the executioner of the NZ Bill of Rights".
Yet they were both Attorneys-General.

Bill (of Rights)
16-09-2012, 03:58 PM
Now then, to round out my advice from #17 above, what I am saying is this. As the incumbent Attorney General, IMHO Christopher Finlayson is one MP I would avoid dealing with for the foreseeable future. He is judge-friendly, he is public-servant friendly, he is lawyer-friendly. His attitude is the very, very old-fashioned one of "The King can do no wrong". Then "off with their heads" if they disagree with the King.

And his friendliness in favour of the government, overwhelms any friendliness he might have to the individuals rights under modern rights-enlightened laws, certainly in comparison to some other current MPs. If you have a choice of who you deal with for the time being, don't include Finlayson. Prefer other MPs, and prefer use of your local MP (for example), if rights issues are at stake in your cause.

When rights are the issue, Finlayson is your enemy, not your friend. This assuredly wasn't the case when for example Sir Geoffrey was A-G, but we don't have Sir Geoffrey now. Please learn from what I am trying to help you with here. I speak from very bitter and personal experience.

Now then, a brief comment on the UK and NZ attitudes to the Bill of Rights. We passed the NZ Bill of Rights Act in 1990. The Brits did so (though they called the Act another name which I will not confuse you with) in 1998. When our Act was but a bill, that is not yet passed by Parliament, its most vociferous opponent was the NZ Law Society. But compare this with what happened 8 years later when the British bill was being publicly debated. The British Law Society was the most ardent ADVOCATE for their new Bill of Rights.

Why the big difference? Well I ask you. When did the Berlin Wall come down? And what happened in the half a dozen years after it came down? Rights. Rights. And more rights. And despite European right enlightenment with a new millennium looming back in the late 1990s, unfortunately the NZ justice system was not paying attention, and we became stuck in the 1970s and 1980s. Remember those lawyers who were so vociferous against the Sir Geoffrey Palmer Bill of Rights Act? Well those antiquated lawyers are now our QCs, judges .. .. .. .. and an Attorney-General.

Bill (of Rights)
16-09-2012, 04:09 PM
Maybe ... ... ... I wonder how many people in New Zealand have read the text of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990. I also wonder why the judiciary wants to ignore the bill of rights in New Zealand.

Our posts overlapped. There is no 'maybe' about it, Yoda. Are you an expert on this stuff? Well I am.

The Bill of Rights Act is one of the smallest Acts (to read) in our statutes, but there are already some of the biggest books written on it (Butler and Butler or Rishworth, Optican). And for every judge's ruling favouring the BoRA, there is another denying the BoRA in an identical setting. We can dream about a new Bill of Rights Act, but it isn't going to happen in your children's lifetimes. It is pointless complaining about how things are, without giving ideas of what we can to do to change things.

What would you be doing, Yoda? Talking about it helps, but please don't "maybe" the experts who are actually in courts trying to fix it.

Bill (of Rights)
16-09-2012, 05:05 PM
A little over 200 years ago, our then Chief Justice (when our Chief Justice was in London) said this:

"A right without a remedy is a vain thing to imagine."

Last year our own Chief Justice Elias cited the above, and added her own version.

"That rights are vindicated through remedy for breach is fundamental to the Rule of Law."

Sadly, our Chief Justice is on her own in this. She is not backed up by a judiciary which is in disarray.

The thought of a District Court Judge chucking out a prosecution because, for example, police didn't read an arrested person his rights, or because police didn't do discovery, or that police deliberately delayed bringing the case to court, or that police kept a police witness secret till the day before the trial, or that it was double jeopardy (all BoRA guarantees): is but a pipe dream. The Courts are in disarray. We have a Bill of Rights. But we have no way of enforcing it right now, because judges are so incredibly hostile to it. They are so dead scared that they might let one guilty party off on a technicality, that they are prepared to overlook legal rights breaches for hundreds if not thousands of genuinely jilted defendants. And don't the cops know it. And don't the cops take full perverse advantage of it.

And by the way, when our Chief Justice said this:

"That rights are vindicated through remedy for breach is fundamental to the Rule of Law." .. ..

.. .. she was outvoted 2 to 3 by her Supreme Court colleagues, who think that rights are not vindicated by remedy.

How the Hell we get out of this mess is beyond me.

But we are are at least trying. With actual court cases, we are at least trying.

NZPCA
29-01-2013, 09:50 AM
There will be large segment on the Warkworth police with allot of documents being disclosed to the public when The New Zealand Police Corruption Association is launched. As well as Orewa and many other stations. Warkworth has many problems, it has it's own page